AVATAR: Does it deserve the compliments it gets?

DistortedEyes · Meat Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: BiH

Before I begin, I must point out that if you did not watch the movie, don't read this because it will perhaps spoil it for you.

This movie was very anticipated.
It's poster surely did get a lot of attention. See here: http://www.drafthouse.com/parknorth/admin/Images/avatar-movie-poster.jpg
What also added to the interest of the crowds was the fact that the movie is entirely 3D.

When I first read that the director of this masterpiece was the same one that directed the Titanic I immediately approached my seat in front of the screen with a dose of negativity and certainty that the movie is SHIT (pardon the language). However, I was not disappointed at all. I thought it was going to be a ''typical modern horseshit Hollywood crap-quasi-movie'' but however, it wasn't. It isn't. the movie is not cyberpunk (that's obvious) but I did like the whole concept that humans are the enemy in this movie, as it does approach everything through the point of view of the Na'avi people. the beginning of the movie gives you the idea that it is a typical American army mission on another planet and that humans are actually doing the good thing by destroying the home of somebody else. However, the film takes quite a turn (a pleasant turn even) and shows us how horrid we can really be. I found it kind of disturbing to watch a 3 hour movie entirely in 3D because after it ended and after I took of those darn glasses I got quite dizzy, irritated and earned myself a slight "hangover' headache. the nature of the Pandora planet is BEAUTIFUL in this movie, and I love the idea.
So... I was wondering... what do you people think of this, let's say, masterpiece?

El Phantasmo

I've been pretty vocal about this movie around here, I really liked it. I've been noticing the internet is pretty split with it, on one hand James Cameron couldn't get away with his old tricks b/c this generation is just too cynical about absolutely everything, on the other some are agreeing that it is a masterpiece and they're giving film critics who didn't like the movie the same shit when they didn't like the Dark Knight.

To tell you guys the truth ( and probably some spoilers, heads up ) I was almost pretty cynical about this when I started to watch it. I got a little turned off by the plot b/c I had imagined it was just one man getting sent as a Na'vi to explore the planet on his own and do recon with the natives and with the whole process he'd lose his identity, but instead it's the Matrix on some RPG setting. Pandora's visual flora and fauna got my interest back slowly b/c it was like an alien version of Walking With Dinosaurs and then the whole battles got me back into it completely and it sold me the rest of the story.

I think I'm gonna have to see it again sometime taking that into consideration, I might find the whole experience even better that way.

Klaw

#1 the Dark Knight did suck.

#2 Sure it's pretty, and technically innovative. But seeing this is a cyberpunk site, I have to harshly criticize the lame cyber shit in this. He gets in a tanning bed, puts on a head brace... and voila... in another body. If his body can't breath... oops, he pops out of the other body. So, each body has auto-pilot for breathing, and running it's own heart? Consciousness is just "going into the light?" Cameron really dropped the ball on this, and I think you could have written a very interesting story where, the Na'vi's consciousness flipped... or was shared... or something. Even in the Matrix, virtual damage caused physical damage... this was kiddie friendly cybery shit. I won't even get into the BattleSmurfs aspect of it... it's more of a watered down Dune that it was any Dances with Wolves. I did like the references to Dragonriders of Pern, but overall this film is for 8th graders in terms of it's painfully obvious plot where characters might as well had T-Shirts with their motivations on them. "Villain", "Love Interest", "Super Empathetic Scientist", "Mean Greedy Guy Who Loves Golf", "Han Solo Pilot Chick", and "Love Interest's Ex-Boyfriend Who Becomes Friends with the Hero".
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DistortedEyes · Meat Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: BiH

Jora · Cyberjunkie Joined: 02 Oct 2008 Posts: 206

I watched Avatar one week ago.

Strangly, the movie was not bad or boring. Though I really have no idea why.

the plot is the same one I've seen before in at least eight different movies. the dialogs are forgetable and I could not remember a single characters name when I waited for the bus home.
There's about no piece of technology in the film, that has not been standard of our everyday lives for years. Human society also doesn't seem to have changed at all. There's a space ship in one shot right at the start and there are small mechs/large suits of powered armor in the end.
There are two or three shots in the movie, where you notice that the aliens are over 3 meters tall. But for the rest of the movie, you don't notice at all. Also, there's nothing new about them. They are just the same indian or african tribe we've seen in so many american shows and movies in the last 20 years. But blue.

What I really wonder is why this movie was beeing made? Why do the creators want us to see their work? Supposed they did not only do it for a bunch of quick and easy money, someone most probably wanted to show us something. But the only thing I can think of is "Look what cool stuff you can do with state of the art CGI".
It can't be for the story, as it is as unoriginal as it gets. It can also not be for the character development, as there isn't any. Also not for the new technology and humanities use of it, as it's also completely absent. And definately not for showcasing a fictional world, as everything is exactly like on earth, except in neon colors and glowing in the dark.

When you watch the movie, you probably won't be bored. But I don't see why doing so would be any better than spending 3 hours relaxing on the couch?
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DistortedEyes · Meat Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Location: BiH

Jora, you have a point about the plot, it is typical. Hmmm, but I also agree with you that something does make the movie interesting, even though neither you or I can figure out why.
the robot armor you mentioned, you know, like the one from the Matrix Revolutions, what are they called... APUs I think? Well, I noticed that both the Matrix and Avatar took this idea from 1979's Ridley Scott's Alien. I mean, you're absolutely right that the technology is not original, we've already seen it a thousand times, and of course the tribe is always a tribe, except this time they are blue and a lot more prettier than usual. (I even find the more beautiful than humans, I must add Very Happy

) I kind of thought about what you said that they wanted us to see something, to send us a message because the movie definitely looks like it wants us to get something, but I absolutely could not figure out what.
On the other hand, in the real world there has been talk for decades that Pandora (for those who do not know, or did not watch the movie, Pandora is one of Jupiter's moons) is actually very similar to Earth and that life there could be possible. But I have no idea how they plan on colonizing it in the first place, I mean... they can't even figure out how to get to Mars, let alone Jupiter. Whoa, I'm kind of drifting of here, sorry, I'll post this topic in some other place...
So Avatar is interesting, but we don't know why... and when you really analize it, it is lousy and everything, but why then can't I stop thinking about it? There must be a message. It's not just a stupid brainless movie... even though the flaws are countless.

Klaw

Jora makes a good point... there's really nothing compelling about the science in this that even makes it good science fiction. All the tech is re-hashed Cameron tech from Aliens.

It's Scifi Fantasy more in line with Dune... but Dune had a far more complex story. This relies on it's visual immersion... and this is where I have a problem. If you are technically making a Avatar suit... for the audience... make a point of stating that in the film. Missed tying that in to the story. Very average film making, with some shiny phosphorescent glow stick colors to jazz it up. Which, was amazing when I saw that in Halo in 2001.

I'm not trying to shoot down your opinion DE... I just don't think this gets anywhere near a phrase "masterpiece". More like... well the word starts with mast... Wink

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Burnt_Lombard · Awakened Mind Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 1211

Film was ok, but the plot felt rushed and rather than tell a story, it relied on Obvious voice over narration, that wasn't needed. Also Klaw brings up a good point with them wearing T shirts. These characters were so one dimensional, they might as well been paper cut outs. And the pro environmentalism was way too heavy handed. We got it already.

Over all a disappointment, especially coming from the guy that gave us the first 2 terminators and Aliens. I had high hopes for this one.

Klaw

Another point brought up that I forgot, by an astrophysicist commenting on the film, was evolution. the animals, and specifically the Navi, were essentially using biotech. USB fiber optics to plug into the plants and animals, and their ancestors. Human evolution took years to develop the network, the first of which was written language. the fact the Navi have tech that is literally more advanced than even our networking abilities, why would they be in bow and arrow bronze age development? They should be able to communicate tribe to tribe, via this network. Cameron's understanding of the science he was providing was incredibly facile.
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El Phantasmo

You know I just had a conversation about this movie with a hippie friend of mine I hadn't seen in a while, he just loved the whole concept of the Na'vi and their outlook on life. It's like people like him enjoy this movie for the reasons I wouldn't be and the reason why the internet just won't stop blasting it. Some people are actually liking the movie b/c of the message, which I think it's public domain b/c we've heard of this story over and over. What I like is the fact that this is James Cameron, and now it was his turn to deliver this message.

And shit, that's how I let my guard down and enjoyed this!

Another thing, this movie is getting pretty celebrated where I live b/c, you Americans got Pocahontas, we got Guanina, and Zoe Saldaña in this movie is very reminiscent to that story our mostly dead natives had with the Spaniards. Only thing they got the Colombia ending ( natives win! ) b/c this is Hollywood and nobody wants to get bummed out when they talk.

Maybe the hype has messed things up a bit, but this movie's not a total waste and maybe it's just a matter of having a niche audience or something.

EDIT: Got to see it again today. 2D this time but it's still pretty good shit, and what I can say now is 1. Jake Scully or liking his character as much as Cameron badass evil war monger ain't lame. You gotta appreciate how his answer to almost anything was a shit-eating grin and watching him blow shit up at the end Hoth style and fighting a mecha is still pretty great.

2. Trudy should've been a robot.

3. I haven't looked at any lame Learn the messages of Avatar! articles b/c I can figure this stuff out myself but I've been wondering if Cameron got the idea for at least the name Tsu'rey from our local boy Turey:

Yeah man, these were fun comics back in the day. Sadly they just couldn't defeat Condorito and it's now defunct.

Oh and it was actually adventure comedy and that issue was just one of the many 'Dark Age' personalities he'd break into similar to DC's Lobo, he also had a Batman gimmick. This is what his exploits really looked like:

chaoseye

was pretty but just. meh.
I could have dealt with overdone story. but the cookie cutter characters and voice over was just too much. felt like I was watching an unintelligent kids movie that just happened to be very pretty and the blue native kitties had cool usb ponytails. also 3d gave me a headache all night.
and what exactly was the 'spice'? that rock. why was it important? jewelry? energy source?
might be relevant to post this, found it from gibsons twitter.
http://www.badgerinternet.com/~bobkat/waterstone.html
I spent 10 bucks on porn. 3 hours of porn. 3d porn. oh well.
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El Phantasmo

chaoseye

tonehog

Meh, it was "cute," as in "pat you on your head, 'cause you did a fine job, little man."

the inner controls in the mechs changed my whole outlook on mechs altogether. Joysticks and buttons won't do.

Have to agree about the USB tails.
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Klaw